Suby & Sins House

22 Jul 2006 1,266 views
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A very intuitive young man Azhar  has put together an absolutely brilliant idea of some of my principles.
Azhar  is a young man I feel is going to go far not only in the photography world, but in the web development world, The boy is a boy genius. Anyway I digress. I am going to borrow most of his words to help explain the policyofsubster .
Now basically what it is, is a sort of system. when you join, and get the badge :), it tells everyone that you want honest feedback, not "cool" or "nice" you want concrete evidence of their thoughts, and you can take it. It also shows your blog is much better than non-subster blogs because you don't mind honest feedback and you actually want it.

What? How? When? And Why!

Well it starts now, you can join right away, blogs Azhar and I know hopefully will get in fast, other blogs may take time. Just go to the [ policy page ] and click Join.
Why did we do this? Well AZHAR did it, inspired by Suby's principles, It sets the record straight on who wants honest criticism and THOSE who wants praises all the time.

So what are you waiting for? Join now!
Please send this to all the photobloggers you know.
Words by Suby/Azhar and photography by Sinem

"Ars longa, vita brevis."


A very intuitive young man Azhar  has put together an absolutely brilliant idea of some of my principles.
Azhar  is a young man I feel is going to go far not only in the photography world, but in the web development world, The boy is a boy genius. Anyway I digress. I am going to borrow most of his words to help explain the policyofsubster .
Now basically what it is, is a sort of system. when you join, and get the badge :), it tells everyone that you want honest feedback, not "cool" or "nice" you want concrete evidence of their thoughts, and you can take it. It also shows your blog is much better than non-subster blogs because you don't mind honest feedback and you actually want it.

What? How? When? And Why!

Well it starts now, you can join right away, blogs Azhar and I know hopefully will get in fast, other blogs may take time. Just go to the [ policy page ] and click Join.
Why did we do this? Well AZHAR did it, inspired by Suby's principles, It sets the record straight on who wants honest criticism and THOSE who wants praises all the time.

So what are you waiting for? Join now!
Please send this to all the photobloggers you know.
Words by Suby/Azhar and photography by Sinem

"Ars longa, vita brevis."

comments (27)

Goodness you too are outsourcing to India!!!!!!

Goodness! He's only 15 for crying out loud.
Suby & Sinem: You seem to forget in the buisness I work in, outsourcing in the word smileHe is 16, dangone could have fooled me, I am one for encouraging anyone and everyone, and got a young man he has lots of passion for this photography thing so me fine. tongue
  • tbyte12
  • United States
  • 22 Jul 2006, 02:28
Hmmm.... RULES? What RULES? I thought this was meant to be a free thinking blog where anyone and everyone who has a passion for photography can critic & LEARN at the same time. I am really looking forward to BREAKING every single one of those RULES! RULES (I hate the word) are meant to be broken (don't even get me started here).
Okay back to the picture... Love the b&W, wish the duck in the background was not blurred, it would have given the pic more umph.. Just my opinion!
Suby & Sinem: You sis, it's not rules, it's just meant to be fun, also just like we have here on Shutterchance, it indentifies those blogs that one can visit to give very honest feedback, you will be surprised at how hard it is to visit as many blogs as some of us visit to comment dropping our comments, sometimes these feedbacks are not always welcome so one has to be careful when commenting hence, "wow" "lovely", "cool" comments which in my opinion really does not help anyone develope. smile
  • Paul
  • United States
  • 22 Jul 2006, 03:13
Sorry, Subster. I won't take the certification. I believe in freedom of expression. Further, I believe in helpful and SUPPORTIVE criticism, not brutal honesty ... but hey, that's me. I think that given the choice, most people would want supportive critiques, not bludgeoning. smile

I'm to a point in my photography that if I think that someone has something constructive to say, then I can perhaps incorporate it, but other than that, who cares. I know what it is that I'm trying to convey and to get across, which is why I switched to all nature, all of the time. Some would say that I need to expand my horizons and do people, still life, cars, etc. but I photograph what I love and that's that. I don't care to "experiment" elsewhere because you might be getting bored with what I shoot. Don't like it, don't comment, it's as simple as that. How's that for honesty?

I don't care of other people get bored with it or don't like it. I don't believe in "rules" of photography, although I do think that certain guidelines make a photograph better, but what makes it speak is the voice behind the image, not any set rules of how to use a flash, or where to put the widget.

Lastly, I don't think that cruel, blunt critiques are helpful. As a matter of fact, I think just the opposite. They can be detrimental to someone's growth. Maybe we don't all have the thick skin of the Subster.

So, tbyte12 and I are in strong agreement. We can give honest feedback WITH support. We can say what we like and then give our OPINION of how we THINK that it MIGHT be improved.

Now, that said, I'm not in the least upset because, quite frankly, I'm happy with who and where I am photographically and will keep growing in the direction that I deem appropriate. So, we are still cool, bro., IMHO

Suby & Sinem: Paul Paul Paul, I knew you would not go for it tongue But hey bro, that's what I like about the blogging world, some like things, some don't, it don't mean I am going to stop visiting your site to comment, sorry you can't get rid of me that easy.

Okay to address some of the things you pointed out, THEY ARE NOT RULES!!! I hate rules, I break every rule in the book every day, the only rules I ever follow are Suby's own rules. So on that, you, me and my harshest critic tbyte12(my lovely sister) are in agreement.

If you read the principles through, it's just a humorous way of having a red shhs mode for people who are non shutterchancers. It can help identify those that really want feedback, why does feedback or honest feedback have to always indicate "I want you to take my shot to pieces" in some peoples book. I give honest feedback on most shots and all I ever say is how much I love the shot, how much I wish I had taken it, how I would not change anything in the shot or and how much I dislike the photographer for taken the shot insted of me etc. Then on the flip side, when I see a shot that could have been better, I put my thought to paper(to screen in this case).

People should not mistake my style of honest feedback as the norm here, I think I am the only one that gives feedback the way I do, I always temper it with what I don't like, how it could be rescued, what could have been done during the shot, what photoshop tricks can be used to enhance the shot if need be. There are others out there who also give CONSTRUCTIVE feedback and are extremely helpful with it. Feedback is not something everyone wants. There are some people who are out there and are happy the way their photography is and at the pace they are developing(if indeed they are still developing), the aim is to identify some people that may be interested in having a core group of people visit their blogs each day to help them grow, or even just for the fun of it just to see what people say about their images.

It's all about having fun in this hobby/profession that some of us are involved in It's not about making up some RULES and ensuring every one complies to it. IT'S ABOUT HAVING FUN, I need to say this agian, FUN FUN FUN FUN, the day I stop enjoying either photography or blogging, is the day I stop being involved in either.

I believe I have grown since being involved with shuterchance and that has only been because people have discovered they can give me their honest opinions, it's not about the Subster having a thick skin, I know comments are not personal, I do not have to listen or agree with the feedback all the time, I just appreciate it that people like yourself take their time out of their busy lives to visit my blog and not only comment, but think of ways for me to improve. I can only but say thank you and try to see if there are others maybe like myself who are interested in learning this way and having fun along the way.

Phew, & I just woke up to write this tongue

Well have a wonderful weekend and do keep on visiting tongue

Hi Suby. I understand your perhaps frustration with some oohs and ahhs at work which you don't think is fantastic but then again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. i've been in creative and design work as a hobby for almost a decade and if there's anything I know, it's that i don't fully get what people appreciate in some of my work or others.

We have had paintings sold for tens of millions of pounds here in the UK and looking at them, yes some appear nice while others are so abstract, one secretly feels they must have jazzed people that look at them. But hey, someone calls it art and that's it!

I think what you may want is more of professional photographers publishing their work (if they'd have the time). Maybe a good idea would be to have a picture which we all have to critique perhaps once a month and give concise reasons why. I have to agree with Paul. Photography and other creative arts are not really bound by rules and you may find it bit of an uphill task to get "hard" criticisms. A few thrown at you and one may soon wonder if there's any creative talent at all.


Suby & Sinem: Wale thanks for that, I will ask you to read my response to Paul & tbyte12, I will say one thing, these are not rules. They are statements which hopefully help guide prosumers or those who are interested in it to become better prosumers. I dislike rules, I break them whenever I can, but you know one thing I seem to be getting is that honest feedback is negative. Aaarrrrrgggghhh, (place huge scream here), you know I get this in the business world as well, tell an employee you want to have a feedback session or a 1-2-1 session, it automatically equates to negativity in peoples mind.

Honest feedback does not also necessary need to mean I want you to tell me how I can improve the shot, It means please just tell me genuinely in your own words, what you think of this shot? Feedback is not meant sorely for those that are conversant in the photography speak, it's open to Joe or Jane bloggs out there who just want to honestly tell the prosumer or photographer what they think of the post.

I hope I have covered any misconceptions, also I really have to say a huge thank you to yourself, tbyte and Paul for the comments you have dropped, due to these comments a few wording changes will be put up to better explain this to people. smile Have a lovely weekend.

i am particularly fond of the blurred effect that is present in this photo. i especially like the contrast between the texture of the log in the foreground with the blur of the duck in the background.
Suby & Sinem: Nicole, thanks, Sinem took this shot a few months ago and never knew why she never bothered to post it, found it last night and decided to post. Glad you like, have a great weekend.

  • Paky
  • Barcelona
  • 22 Jul 2006, 05:39
Fantastic image! Nice shot!
Suby & Sinem: Thanks Paky
  • Azhar
  • India
  • 22 Jul 2006, 05:44
Let me first clearly state THESE ARE NOT RULES. THIS DOES NOT PUT A UNIFORM ON YOU, AND BEHEAD YOU FOR NOT PUTTING IT ON. There is a difference between policy and rules and it seems it has been misunderstood with the above. (First I have to give a LOL @ Jide grin)

"blog where anyone and everyone who has a passion for photography can critic & LEARN at the same time" Ahem : you just stated the goal of this. We are not restricting you in any way, you can do what you want, but here is a set of terms that if you folllow (not religously man we're all human photobloggers) it will end up helping you. Are we saying that you have to post a bird picture of tuesday? Are we saying you need to post on time all the time. no! We're ADVISING this because we think in the end the visitor knows that badge means something.

"urther, I believe in helpful and SUPPORTIVE criticism, not brutal honesty" ok I don't get this, if the HONEST opinion is brutal, isnt it still honest, and cmon we're all human we wont kill you for a bad photo we obviously give you a reason for not linking it, just like you are giving me a reason for not linking this policy. Critics may be detremental to one's growth? Maybe if you can't take it, so don't get into the plicy, because from what you have typed, you'd prefer to learn photography the hard way.No offence, I had to say that brutally honest statement.


Ah after all my frustration has been taken out in a neat paragrahed form I will be looking forward to return to argue with you later in the day, as soon as I get the keys I broke typing this due to frustration.

Suby & Sinem: Go get em Azhar smile
  • Azhar
  • India
  • 22 Jul 2006, 05:51
Wow. I should have gone for debates...
  • Azhar
  • India
  • 22 Jul 2006, 05:54
Whoa Suby thanks for those ton of links, you didn't had to make all of my names typed links grin thanks.
  • barbara
  • Great Britain (UK)
  • 22 Jul 2006, 08:10
It does sound rather scary and indimidating...some days one just wants positive strokes...even you Suby!
"If you're accepted in, and get the badge"'? I had a secret group like that when I was knee high to a grasshopper...nah...all too stressful for me...this is supposed to be fun, albeit a learning curve.
Back to the picture - doesn't follow the RULE of thirds..but is still good (funnily enough I was trying process a "duck" shot now..but I stopped as I didn't think it was good enough to post...that's sufficient for me).

I'd rather feel free to express myself and be silly at times (ref my COW weekend) and on that note...I had better go and start doing my chores for Saturday...
Have a lovely day Bx
Suby & Sinem: Aunty Barbs, its not meant to be scary, it's meant to add to the fun we are all having with this photography and blogging thing. There is a correction to be made there is no criteria to really conform to to be accepted, it just means that you have to accept the fact that you will get honest not always positive feedback, it also helps increase the amount of people that visit your blog, I have a favourite folder of blogs I visit, but what happens when I am not at my PC and have no access to favourites, ahh I can visit the policy page and visit the guys there smile

You already do a form of this with the Red shhs mode in shutterchance you know, this is just something that can be used also by non shutterchancers. Hey we all want to get constructive feed backs. But what happens when that in itself is lacking and all you get is "nice shot" "cool shot"?

My policy is to always have fun with photography, never changed, NEVER WILL CHANGE.
  • Azhar
  • India
  • 22 Jul 2006, 08:21
".this is supposed to be fun, albeit a learning curve."
Now how are we ruining the fun? grin and it justs make learning a tad faster.
  • Azhar
  • India
  • 22 Jul 2006, 08:22
"be silly at time" encouraged. as mentioned experiments.
  • Idefix
  • Germany
  • 22 Jul 2006, 10:36
Hey, what the hell is going on? I haven't got the time to read all the comments because I've got to be at a horseshow in half an hour......

Anyway.... the picture .... Hmmmm. The scene is one I would have tried to capture, but I would have done something different with it. I love the elements, but am not sure about the way they were put together. Will need to come back later and look again... Actually it grows on me the longer I look at it, still not too sure about the duck though. I think I would have loved just the wood?
Suby & Sinem: Petra, I await your take on this, although it may not make sense to you as Azhar & I have done a little tweaking here and there following on from some of the comments above, goes to prove that honest feedback most times brings the best out of most people.

Anyone else out there who has a take on this, please feel free to let it out. Posistive or negative tongue

Have fun at the show, should be getting ready for a trip to London, need to just go out and chill and possibly take some shots smile
  • Paul
  • United States
  • 22 Jul 2006, 11:38
I know that this is not a forum, but Azhar, just because I do it my way, and prefer to have it done to me that way, with supportive criticism, doesn't mean that I'm "learning the hard way". Maybe I prefer to take my path of learning rather than yours.

After all, what we are giving about the photos is OPINION, not FACT. So your OPINION may, in fact, stifle my growth, not help it if you are way of base, have no idea in which I'm headed, nor what I'm trying to say.

Suby: Nice, well thought out reply. I knew that you wouldn't take it personally. I went on all of that rant and didn't comment on the photo. I really like it. It's different.

  • Azhar
  • India
  • 22 Jul 2006, 11:51
Yes Paul.
Suby & Sinem: And the Subster said... LET PEACE REIGN IN THE WORLD smile :p I am loving the lively debate though smile
  • tbyte12
  • United States
  • 22 Jul 2006, 13:08
If you read between the lines of some of the blogs (Paul, Wale etc) they all have very good reasons and also excellent ideas. Don't discount these ideas. Bottom line is your way (even though meant to be fun) is very archaic and people are generally very wary of being pigeon holed by someone else especially if they don't understand the concept. Its a free thinking world and people are more than happy to critic, provide guidance and advice. Don't stifle that. Learn to listen and be smart about ideas that are thrown at you. If you pick up on these small hints and follow through people will appreciate it.

Asking people what they think is also a powerful way of asking for advice instead of" laying down the law" and expecting people to follow suit.

P.S - Tell Sinem to remember to resond back to blogs whenever she posts.
Thanks for the links! Great idea!
  • Steve
  • Pennsylvania
  • 22 Jul 2006, 15:20
Thanks for the comment. Just curious, how did you come across my blog?

I really love what you've got going here. I was going through your previous pictures, and the one thing that stood out to me was your skill with including people in your photographs. For me, people are SO difficult to photograph, so I generally try to stick with non-human subjects. That said, looking at your photographs has given me a few ideas, as well as an inclination to start experimenting with people more than I do. The results you've achieved really impress me, and I'd love to be able to get some of the results that you've gotten from photographing people. So thanks!

And since you asked, I use a Canon Powershot SD300. Yes, you read that correctly. I want to get a DSLR so bad, but I can't afford it. It's just gonna have to wait.
Suby & Sinem: I came acrros your blog cause you commented on someone elses blog, A habit of mine is always to click on at least 2 or 3 bloggers names when commenting on blogs, that way I am able to see a more varied variety of images and not pidgeon holed to just a few favourites. It's hard work but I like it smile

My passion is really people photo
  • Craig
  • Great Britain (UK)
  • 22 Jul 2006, 15:56
Having fun?!?! lol...
Suby & Sinem: Dang bro, if I knew this was going to generate such a heated debate I would not have got out of bed this morning tongue See Suby still a coward that really dislikes upsetting anyone.
Wonderful idea. smile Mindless praises (especially those targetted at getting you to visit THEIR photoblogs) irritate me to no end.
Suby & Sinem: Welcome to the club bro, thanks for the kudos.

So U joining? tongue
  • Solaria
  • United States
  • 22 Jul 2006, 23:30
Sounds like a great idea, although I do have to say, most folks that have visited and commented on my blog have been fairly honest, and have told me when "hey, that just doesn't work" which I appreciate.
Any kind of community or spirit within the photography world (that is positive) is a wonderful idea. Good luck to ya!
Suby & Sinem: Thanks for the big up Solaris, I really hope people can see past any negatives they seem to want to throw up at this and embrace a very fun and humorous way for all to learn. tongue

I'm not to sure that I really need a special sign to let people know that I want constructive feedback. While I am still a babe in the woods as far as photography goes I am no stranger to the creative process having studied and worked as a lighting and set designer in theatre. Most things that I do when shooting and particularly when processing are deliberate with a specific end result in mind. Most of the time they work sometimes they don't and but in 98 percent of the images that I post it works for me and the other 2 percent I may ask what I might be able to do to make it better. I asm not a professional or the word you are so fond of calling us prosumer but rather an amateur (which does not mean that I am not good at it but that I do it purely for the love and passion of it). If someday I am able to sell my images as stock or otherwise I will still consider myself a paid amateur. I happily accept all criticism but will also passionately defend what I think I did right. Most of all I do this for me and to share a part of me with others.

That said you well know as do most that visit my blog that the RED light is always on unless I say otherwise.
Suby & Sinem: You think you are the only one who defends what they think is right, better hightail it to my post on the 24th and see how the Subster likes to defend his corner. Now look at it this way, I visit almost 100 blogs each day and most of them are not Shutterchancers, how am I to know if the crave feedback or not, or they wnat me to go red? The policy is not a licence that says slag my image, tell me what I could have done better, it means tell me what you really think, if you like something, you can go as far as to tell me whay you like it, of you don't like, tell me why and how you think I can improve, if you can't do that "cool" "nice" will do or you can just rate the post. To me that does not sound like a rule does it?

Oh and I know that most people blog only because they want people to visit their blogs back, oh well jez, I increase my traffic, have 1 million people commenting on my blog, but guess what, I have learned diddly squat. One thing you will realise about the Subster is I want to learn and I also WANT every one to learn and develope, I will do whatever I can to ensure this knowledge that is floating around in the heads of most photobloggers is passed on to as many people as possible. It's just the way I am. smile

  • Nick
  • Netherlands
  • 23 Jul 2006, 05:40
Sorry, no signing up for me. I'll keep visiting because I enjoy your pictures and sometimes feel like commenting, but I'm not signing up to a rule book. If people want to visit and comment on my work, that's fine - whatever they say; I set no rules and want none set for me thanks.
Suby & Sinem: Nick all I will say is please read the policy again and my comments here today, it's not about rules, the Susbter dislikes rules and at every chance he has he breaks them, it's about trying to bring into blogging a fun way for people to learn. It may not be for everyones liking fair enough, but please remeber, it no where states they are rules, it's a humerous way of trying to help people generate even more feedback if they WANT IT smile

  • timmybomb
  • Vancouver, Canada
  • 23 Jul 2006, 06:43
I've already given props to Azhar for this brilliant idea, but I'll give you lots of credit too. It is people like you, Suby, who make this photoblog thing worth while. The famous Uncle Robert was just telling me this week that I have too many "fans" visiting my site, and not nearly enough critics. How I am I grow as a photographer if nobody tells me when I suck. Anyways, thanks for all your honest feedback over the last several months, and keep it coming.

Sinem, this photo is lovely. I really like the out of focus duck. I think I might like it better if both pieces of wood were in focus, or perhaps neither of them. But I'm not sure.
Suby & Sinem: Timmy a big thank you, I have to admit I am really taken aback at the way some folks have turned this brilliant idea from Azhar into something negative, Azhar came up with a brilliant idea, which I thought was great. It could help people out there further develope in their photography, next thiung I know I am trying to Subvert freedom of speech and introduce all kinds of darstardly rules. eee hellloo, what part of fun did I miss? I do know not everyone one out there likes honest feedback, or feedback for that matter, that is why it is open to people to join OR NOT TO JOIN. Freedoom people, how am I going to grow if everyone tells me how wonderful I am? Funny thing is because I know I invite constructive feedbacks on my posts, I really take time with my photography and editing. All because I want the next image to be better than the last. And all this because I welcome the feedback. So people, I say, if that is what one likes, feel free, but if that does not work for you and you feel you do not need the policy to help you grow, walk on by, do not slag a valiant attempt by a very young man to try to help people, I say encourage not discourage, help him mold his wonderful idea into something we all can be proud of.

Thanks as always for taking the time to comment Timmy (u still here?) It is always appreciated
  • Azhar
  • India
  • 23 Jul 2006, 09:07
Nick : not rules grin the long arguments and the policy page itself states that. It simply differentiates blogs which want constructive criticsim and those that don't. Many blogs are offended when you say you do not like a photo. Having the badge gives the visitor confidence to be totally honest smile
hi subester smile

well, i always admire positive initiatives like this, but speaking personally, what i most like about this new form of communication, blogging, is its inherent freedom. im not keen on policies per se. i have optioned to use the pre-moderate facility on as ive encountered a lot of problems with trolling on discussion forums over the past 5 years. having said that, ive yet to recieve an abusive or negative comment on my blog, so for me, its self policing.

agreed with you about azhar - he was the first person to help me with techy queries about blogging, knowing nothing about me at the time. he is a genuine, kind person possessing incredible innate talent, and like you, i know in my heart that this boy will go far smile
  • Alicia
  • USA
  • 5 Jul 2007, 14:08
I like the greyish tones. The focused foreground and the blurred duck contrast each other. Gives an interesting contrast.

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